Friendship, Podcasting & Navigating Your 20s
By Natalie Gal | Culture | April 13, 2025
Cover Illustration: Leo (left) and Clara (right) / 2024
Reporter Natalie Gal sat down with Leo and Cara—the voices behind The Matcha Diaries—to uncover how their conversations evolved into a podcast beloved by thousands. Touching on the complexities of girlhood, the highs and lows of your twenties, and their lives in Amsterdam and London.
Over a warm cup of matcha, in true “Matcha Diaries” fashion, I sat down with Leo and Cara—the voices behind the beloved podcast. Their show, a mix of personal anecdotes, deep conversations and comforting advice, covers everything from self-love and confidence to breakups, friendships and the challenges of growing up.
From Friendship to Podcasting: The Origin of “The Matcha Diaries”
Leo and Cara’s journey began on their very first day of university as marketing students in the United Kingdom.
“I don’t remember who approached whom,” Leo recalls, “but I remember thinking, Oh my god, she’s so pretty and nice—I want to be friends with her!”
Their friendship truly deepened in their final year, bonded by long study sessions, dissertation stress and endless cups of matcha.
“We started studying together, having matcha and having these deep conversations,” Leo explains. “That’s actually where ‘The Matcha Diaries’ name came from!”
As graduation approached, life took them in different directions—Cara stayed in the U.K, while Leo returned to Hamburg before eventually relocating to Amsterdam. Then, COVID-19 changed everything.
“During the pandemic, we met up for a long-distance walk, and that’s where the idea of the podcast took shape,” they recall. “That night, we started brainstorming names and logo ideas. Within days, we had bought microphones and recorded our first episode.”
What started as a spontaneous idea quickly became a commitment and a passion project. The podcast became an outlet for processing thoughts, navigating uncertainties and, most importantly, staying connected.
“The best part was that we got to call each other every week for one to two hours and just chat about a topic.”
Unlike many new podcasters, they didn’t focus on growth metrics at first.
“In the first year, we didn’t even look at our analytics,” Leo admits. “That helped us keep going because we weren’t discouraged by low numbers. It was just our bubble—us speaking into the microphone, with no pressure or expectations.”
The Secret of a Successful Podcast
At its core, the idea for the podcast stemmed from a simple thought:
“We were those people who thought, ‘Our conversations are so interesting—people would love to listen to us talk over matcha!’ ” said Cara.
I’m sure many of you can relate as starting a podcast can be such an exciting idea. Despite this, there are many details to consider from topics, branding and even the title, which made me wonder: What makes a podcast truly stand out?
“I believe great podcasts offer value through storytelling. One of my favorites is Modern Love, where essays from The New York Times column are read aloud. Each episode is beautifully written and deeply emotional—it makes me think, introduces me to new perspectives and stays with me. That’s what I look for in a podcast: something that gives back, whether by sparking a new idea, providing entertainment, or even moving me to tears.” said Cara.
Leo nodded in agreement before adding:
“I think the key is authenticity and relatability. Podcasts are one of the few places online where you can truly be yourself. From the messages we’ve received, we know people appreciate that we’re open about our overthinking and everyday thoughts. Sometimes, we listen back to an episode and think, ‘Wow, we just spent an hour talking about such a small topic!’ But people enjoy it because they feel the same way.”
In the end, the magic formula is simple. Authenticity and relatability matter most, as listeners connect with unfiltered thoughts and genuine emotions. In other words, just being yourself is all you might need for a great podcast.
The 20s Survival Guide: Embracing the Highs, the Lows and Everything In Between
Listening to their podcast, one might feel as though Leo and Cara are big sisters—offering advice, sharing experiences and reflecting on life’s ups and downs. In many ways, they seem wise beyond their years.
Curious about their perspective, I asked what advice they had for navigating our 20s—a time often clouded by endless guidance, yet still full of uncertainty.
“I think my biggest piece of advice is to stop being so hard on yourself,” Leo shares. “There’s so much pressure, especially in your early 20s, to have everything figured out—to know exactly what your next steps are. But you’re doing better than you think, and the work you’re putting in now will be something your future self looks back on and says, ‘Wow, you did so well.’”
“These moments—this time in your life—you’ll never get them back. You deserve to enjoy them. University, for example, is only three or four years, and while academics are important, so is everything else. Being okay with who you are should always be the priority.”
As Emily Dickinson said: “That it will never come again is what makes life so sweet.”
“I remind myself of that all the time,” she says. “This period—your early 20s—will never happen again, so you might as well enjoy it to the fullest. And you deserve to.”
“For me, my 20s have been filled with so many new experiences,” Cara reflects. “Some amazing highs—buying my first apartment, getting my first job, moving to London. But with that came a lot of lows—experiencing grief, health issues and other challenges.”
Her advice is simple: embrace the highs fully and be present in those moments, but also allow yourself to feel and process the lows. There will be highs and lows, and one must find beauty in the unpredictability itself.
Amsterdam & London: Navigating Friendships and Dating
Leo moved to Amsterdam in 2023, a city often described as having a “loneliness epidemic” where building friendships and connections can be challenging.
“Honestly, it was harder than I expected,” Leo admits. “The only other time I had moved as an adult—if you can even call 18 adulthood—was when I started university. But at uni, you have a built-in structure around you, unless, of course, you were unlucky enough to start during COVID.”
Moving to a new city, she immediately felt the pressure to make friends. Determined to put herself out there, she tried everything. At first, making genuine connections proved to be difficult, despite, she learned to let go of the pressure.
“I didn’t even realize how much of a source of confidence and comfort my circle of friends had been until they weren’t there. At first, I struggled.”
“My boyfriend kept telling me, ‘Don’t stress, the right people will come,’ and I was always like, ‘No, I have to try!’ But of course, he was right—he’s always right, it’s annoying,” she laughs. “Once I stopped forcing it, I started meeting people naturally—at dinners, through mutual friends, just random moments of connection. You never know who someone will introduce you to or how certain groups will form.”
Dating in major cities like London and Amsterdam can be even more difficult, given the sheer number of options and the way modern dating culture has evolved. She believes one of the biggest issues with dating in big cities today is the reliance on apps.
“I know this isn’t a hot take—it’s been said a million times—but I do think dating apps are so worn out at this point. Everyone is kind of sick of them. You go through cycles of excitement, then fatigue. Of course, I have at least three or four close friends who met their partners on Hinge in Amsterdam or London. So it definitely happens. But even when I was using the apps, I would get excited for a while, and then quickly feel drained.”
“It’s important to remember it’s not that deep—you can just delete the app whenever you want. Going on date after date or having conversations that lead nowhere can be exhausting. There’s no etiquette, people ghost all the time—it’s just part of the process.”
According to Cara, the dating scene in London isn’t too different from ours, offering endless opportunities for dates and the chance to meet someone new around every corner.
“London is actually a great place to date because there’s so much to do. The city is huge—there are concerts, museums and cool little bars. So you can really curate your dates to match the kind of experience and conversations you want to have while getting to know someone.”
However, with so many people moving to the city for work or studies, relationships can feel temporary, making it challenging to build something long-term. People pass through the city for years, sometimes losing themselves in the hypnotic rush, searching only for a fleeting sense of belonging before leaving again.
“The very thing that makes the city exciting also makes dating harder. With so many people often coming for work or studies for just a few years, it can be hard to turn dating into something long-term. A lot of people eventually move back to their home countries, which makes building something lasting more challenging.”
Being a listener of “The Matcha Diaries” since my high school days, finally getting the chance to speak with Leo and Cara felt like a full-circle moment. The podcast and our conversation undoubtedly explore a wide range of topics, from self-discovery to the uncertainties of adulthood. But as a closing thought, there is one theme that stands out above all—the importance of conversation, vocalizing our feelings and experiences to help not only others but ourselves. Leo and Cara have created something truly special: a community where listeners feel seen and understood.
If you’d like to know more and dive deeper into their conversations, you can find “The Matcha Diaries” on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube. You can also follow the podcast, as well as Cara and Leo, on their social platforms to stay updated.
Natalie Gal is a university student in Amsterdam. The views expressed here are not necessarily those of The Amsterdammer.
